On 17 September, I attended the annual meeting of the League, the party led by
On 17 September, I attended the annual gathering of the League in Pontida (Bergamo). The party led by Matteo Salvini, Italy’s Deputy Prime Minister and one of the key figures in the right-wing governing majority, currently holds 66 seats in parliament. This year’s meeting marked the official launch of the League’s European election campaign and featured a prominent guest: Marine Le Pen, President of France’s Rassemblement National, the country’s leading far-right party with 88 MPs in the National Assembly.
Her presence underscored the renewed alliance between Salvini and Le Pen, an alliance that distinguishes Salvini’s identitarian right from the far-right of Giorgia Meloni, who frames herself as a “conservative right-wing” leader. Following the rally, I interviewed Marine Le Pen about migration, European alliances, and the future of Europe.
By Anna Bonalume
What is the priority of your alliance with Matteo Salvini and the League?
The priority of my alliance with Matteo Salvini is to guarantee freedoms. Above all, the freedom of peoples to decide for themselves. Today, the European Union prevents this freedom from being exercised.
What freedoms are you referring to?
The freedoms that the European Union is endangering. The EU should be a structure that allows nations to cooperate on major issues; it cannot unilaterally undermine our vital national interests through an ever-expanding form of power, as the European Commission does. Prohibiting internal combustion engines at the risk of destroying our car industry, or imposing immigration that the people have not chosen, these are examples. Freedom is the foundation of democracy. There is no democracy if the will of the people cannot be expressed freely or if, once expressed, it is not respected.
If, as you say, the European Union threatens popular sovereignty and democracy, are you planning to call a referendum, on leaving the EU, as you once proposed?
But why? Why would I do that?
Because you argue that the EU prevents democracy
Madam, when someone assumes powers that are not theirs, you don’t destroy the entire structure, they must simply be put back in their place. You remind them of the limits of their mandate. Why breaking everything? There is no need to break everything. What we want is to re-establish the rules and re-orient the European Union, from a Europe run by the Commission to a Europe led by the nations.
But should the Commission disappear?
If it remained within its rightful role, it would essentially be a secretariat to the Council.
You met Matteo Salvini and the League in Italy on Sunday. The party is currently losing ground, with 8% of voting intentions according to IPSOS Italy, whereas in the European elections it won 34% of the vote. How do you see the future of this alliance?
I’ve known the League and Matteo Salvini for many years. He has remained consistent. We are the League’s oldest and most loyal allies. A true friend stands by you in both success and difficulty. I have no concerns about the future of the League or about Salvini’s ability to regain political momentum. I’ve been in politics long enough to know that there are ups and downs; what matters is perseverance. We are not opportunists.
The League has changed radically in recent years. It has gone from being a federalist and autonomist party with the idea of getting out of the euro and the European Union to a national party that wants a stronger Italy in Europe. The League has changed its skin several times.
I don’t think it has changed its identity. It has evolved into a major party with the ambition to speak to all Italians.
The French Interior Minister Gérald Darmanin travelled to Rome to speak with his Italian counterpart. He announced that he would help Italy defend its borders and that France would not welcome the migrants who arrived on Lampedusa. In fact, he took the words right out of your mouth…
You know, with Mr Darmanin you always have to wait for the next statement. He said that on Europe 1, and four hours later he announced the creation of a reception centre in Menton, right on the Italian border.
Mr Darmanin described Giorgia Meloni’s migration policy in May as a “failure”. Today, Lampedusa is overwhelmed. Do you share that assessment ?
I think the road to failure is to rely on the European Union to solve the problem, for tI think it is a mistake to rely on the European Union to solve the problem, first, because the EU supports mass immigration. You cannot ask an institution that favours mass immigration to stop it. Second, it is dangerous for nations to delegate responsibility in this domain. Nations must solve the problem themselves.
Matteo Salvini closed Italian ports to migrants landings.Matteo Salvini closed Italian ports to migrant landings.
And he was right: the figures for arrivals have fallen drastically. Every time we show lAnd he was right. Arrivals dropped drastically. Every time we show laxity, it encourages more departures. We need to send a clear signal: “We are not prepared to accept.”
How would you define Giorgia Meloni’s migration policy?
She is asking the European Union to act, but by doing so she shifts the problem onto neighbouring countries. We need to address the issue at the source. Nations must create conditions that prevent departures. I strongly believe in an agreement between France, Spain, and Italy that would allow us to intercept smugglers’ boats, bring migrants to safety, and return them to the coasts they departed from. Migrants must be dissuaded from coming. Europe focuses on how to welcome them, but refuses to accept that people may not wish to welcome them.
Even those entitled to asylum?
The right to asylum has been totally misused. Guineans, Cameroonians, Tunisians… iThe right to asylum has been completely misused. Guineans, Cameroonians, Tunisians, is there a war in these countries? No. These are people seeking a better life in Europe. But we do not have the space, the infrastructure, the housing, or the jobs. For all these reasons, we have the right to refuse these migrants.
You have said you want to leave NATO, while Giorgia Meloni wants Italy to stay
No, I want to leave NATO’s integrated command. Italy and France are not in the same situation. Italy does not have nuclear weapons; France does. This gives France an independence that allows it to remain in NATO without being part of the integrated command, just as Charles de Gaulle did.
One word to describe your relationship with Matteo Salvini and one to describe your relationship with Giorgia Meloni
Salvini is a dear, long-standing friend with whom I have a relationship of trust. I have no relationship with Giorgia Meloni. I met her a few times before she entered government, when she was a young activist in Azione Giovani.
Did you speak in French?
Yes, but we haven’t seen each other since.
